Is there something that you wish you added to today's conversation? Please reflect, do some research and tell me the one argument/case/connection that you wish you made in the discussion.
This is a mandatory prompt! Everyone should have at least one thing. . .
Thank you!!
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I would have liked to discuss some of the different views that people had in Jasper. It seemed like there was one group of African Americans that thought that racism was a large problem in Jasper, and another group that thought things were getting better and that things were integrated (like the town leaders). We also saw a something similar with the white community, some people who are very racist and others who think that everything is fine and that racism isn't an issue. I would have liked to talk about why these different views exist and how this reflects race relations in town.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to say that there is a lot of racism today. This is to add to the "lexington is a bubble" comments. I googled racism cases and race discrimination in the US and there were so many articles. I think that even though we think have surpassed racism and unequality, there still is a lot of problems that go unnoticed. Many of the cases were hard to understand because there are so many laws that can be interpeted differently and many definitions of racism. I don't think that the government has fixed the problem of discrimination. I think the case in Jasper is just so brutal and inhumane that it was spotlighted by the media, if this was a case about a unequality in a school or another type of discrimination instead of a murder we would not even know about it. I wounder if when other countries look at the US see that there are still problems and crimes against races?
ReplyDeleteToday's discussion didn't focus on racism and the relationship between the races in Jasper, Texas. During the discussion, I wanted to bring up the difference between the jury on the Emmett Till case and the jury for the case in Jasper. Emmett Till's jury was only white men from the town in which the accused killers lived. In the case in Jasper, the jury was a mix of African American men and white men. The fact the jury is racially mixed makes for a trial that is more fair for the family of the person who was killed. Byrd's family deserved to have a jury that was racially mixed in order to get the justice they deserved. Byrd's death was extremely brutal and the trial provided some of the justice his family deserved. I personally believe that the the case of Emmett Till had a bad jury becuase of the race issue and the fact that an all white jury is biased towards Till's killers. If the jury had been a mix of white and black people, the result would probably have been different. In doing research, I found that racial killings also include black people killing white people. However, it is more common for a white person to kill a black person.
ReplyDeleteI think that the case in Jasper brings up the important point that tolerance is not the same as eradicating racism. As we saw in Jasper, each race had a great tolerance for the other races and they were respectful towards one another (for the most part). The leaders of the community varied in race, demonstrating that race was not the primary factor citizens took into account when judging others. However, despite this tolerance in Jasper, we see that racism still lingers, that the blacks were still afraid that Byrd's murderers would be given a light sentence due to his race. The blacks confided that they still felt oppressed and not equal to their white counterparts. This idea of tolerance was widespread in the 1900s, when the United States had its "separate but equal" clause following the case Plessy v. Ferguson. This case stated that blacks would be tolerated, but their facilities could be legally separated from those of whites. Avoiding integration of the races inhibited the eradication of racism in the US. Later, Brown v Board of Education overturned the "separate but equal" clause and said that separate is inherently unequal. Separate facilities for blacks and whites were now illegal. Not only would whites now have to tolerate blacks, but they would also have to share their spaces with them, learn to understand and respect them and ultimately, rid of their racist beliefs. Following the Civil War, the US's plan for reconstruction strived to integrate blacks into society by encouraging racial tolerance and promising to legally enforce the newfound rights of the black man. Tolerance is definitely a good first step towards ridding of racism, but it is far from the last. When looking at Jasper, many people see the blacks integrated with the whites on the surface and assume that there is no racism. But this assumption is erroneous; in fact, there is racism, but it is harder to spot because there is a higher degree of racial tolerance.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that was touched upon in the discussion in class was whether the younger generation in Jasper, Texas would have a different attitude than the older people who were interviewed in the movie. I thought this was a really interesting question, and also an important thing to think about because the next generation, and the next, are the ones that will determine the future of race relations in Jasper. I did a quick google search of where children learn about racism, and found this article: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/89069.php which says that white kids who learn about racism are more positive towards black people because of it. I thought this was very interesting in the context of the film, especially the part where one of the men at the breakfast club (I think?) said that the n-word was never derogatory when he was using it before. This seems to me to be the sort of attitude that will lead to another generation of racist people: by denying that racism exists, the adults in the community are not giving the children the tools to improve race relations. Instead, it seems likely that they will deny that they are racially biased just like their parents did, while learning the same attitudes that their parents had.
ReplyDeleteA lot of good points were brought up in Friday's discussion that highlighted the extreme problem with racism in Jasper, TX, but I wish we could've talked about the racial divide in modern America as a whole. I found an article which displays racial hate crime statistics for 2007 in the U.S. The number of total crimes (4,724) in 2007 were reported as being motivated 69.3 percent by an anti-black bias, while only 18.4 percent were from anti-white biases, and the remaining percentage from other biases. This points to modern America's standing racial divide problems. The cases of racially motivated crimes are quite high, and it's evident that racism, while lessened, is not inexistent. I don't think that many people realize that it's still an issue, and it needs to be brought up and discussed more openly, in a present-day context.
ReplyDeleteArticle: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2007/incidents.htm
Wait a sec! I wanted to say... that overall it was a good discussion. I agreed with a lot of what people said. However, I wanted to include Emmett Till in the conversation but I didn't because a) I didn't think he would fit in the conversation, and b) none of the comments would have given a smooth path for Emmett Till to enter.
ReplyDeleteOne of my original questions was: "Would there be hate crimes if the Jim Crow Laws never existed?", and I said the answer was no, because the segregation was what brought the hate to the table in the first place. It made the blacks separate from the whites, and it made it seem like whites had superiority over the blacks (the whites got to sit in a first-class compartment of a train). I think this is one of the reasons why Emmett Till was so brutally murdered. It seemed to whites that what E. Till did was morally and absolutely wrong! I have brought this question up in another blog, and I am going to bring it up again: Would the reaction be less severe or different if a white boy had flirted with a black woman? I think Emmett Till can be related to these hate crimes in a way since he was a victim of a hate crime!
Something I would have liked to add to the conversation we had in class on Thursday regards the different ways in which the murder of James Byrd was accepted. The black community for the most part was absolutely appalled. The white community mostly thought it was a horrible way to die but had excuses as well. One of the most striking parts of the movie for me was when the white folks in the breakfast place were talking about the murder. One person actually tried to palliate the whole event by saying that James Byrd had been in jail (in a town where everyone has been in jail). They were upset that the media was trying to build the Byrd family up to be role models. That seemed so ridiculous to me. To even be able to say something like that, I can't even imagine. And to say it to a camera crew making a documentary! I can't believe someone would even think something like that. To me, and I have pictured this a number of times in horrifying phantasmagoria, that is one of the worst ways imaginable to die. No one deserves that, case closed.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that I wanted to bring up was the matter of how location plays a big part of racism and where it tends to be prevalent. Jasper is in the south, and so I have to admit I wasn't too surprised that it was a far more racist town than Lexington. The fact that slavery originated in the south kind of leaves a permanent mark in its history, and so it makes sense that people tend to be more racist in southern states. Especially many of the elder folk of Jasper displayed this kind of attitude, because like Sammy said, there were people in that breakfast place talking about the murder and usage of the n-word. One man said that he had been brought up in an environment in which it was just a word that was used, and that "it didn't mean anything." I think that for these reasons, the physical location of a place determines a lot in terms of how people are treated.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I would have added to the discussion on Friday was how the African American people in Jasper were much quicker to accept that the murder of James Byrd was a hate crime based on race than the white people. As was demonstrated in the movie, the white people were more inclined to make up excuses for Byrd’s murder, some even thinking there had to have been a reason he deserved it. I think the white people do not like to admit that there is clearly still racism occurring all around them, so they feel if they ignore it then it may not occur. People need to become more educated on the present day racism that is still very evident, instead of just trying to ignore it.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could have said something when the inner circle was talking about where racism comes from. People questioned whether everyone was born with their opinions or if being raised shaped their point of view. It was interesting to hear people's opinions on that. I also think it was interesting to hear people talk about the death penalty sentence versus life in prison. Some people thought one was worse than the other. Another point was questioning who deserved one sentence, if all three deserved life in prison or the death penalty.
ReplyDeleteI would have liked to discuss the factors which contributed to the crime in the first place, the influences which spawned the corrupted mentalities of the three persecutors in the first place. More specifically, what must have been in their upbringings to cause such unmitaigated hatred. The ideals and perspectives implanted within them as children must have been twisted for such an awful crime to occur through their hands. Their parents and beliefs, as well as their time in prison all added up into the murder of James Byrd. I would have liked to speak about what caused the racist crime.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOur discussions with both groups i think were really productive, however the only thing i wanted to add was the fact that the guy with all the tattoos (not on trial) had said something really interesting in the last time he's seen in the film. He discussed how the trial changed the outlook he had on his life; saying things like from now on i treat everyone the same, and I'm not racist, but at the end he made one or too comments that really put into perspective the fact that he hadn't changed in any way. He said something like, but the last thing i still don't believe in interracial marriages. This comment really brought me back to the Emett Till movie, history class, and research on Malcolm X which pretty much all said the same thing. White mens' biggest fear was their white women being with or getting raped by black men. They basically didnt believe consensual sex could happen between both parties and it was always rape, an offense that whether true or not meant the lynching of thousands of african americans. The fact that the guy on the Jasper video said that he still doesn't believe in interracial marriages, means 1. his idealism was rooted in history, and 2. that he hadnt shed any of the prejudices like he claimed he had.
ReplyDeleteI would have liked to discuss the difference between the reactions of whites and blacks to the murder of James Byrd. I noticed that the black community seemed to hold a lot of anger towards the murder, but were happy that some of the racial issues in the town were finally being recognized by people. I also noticed that a lot of the whites felt guilty in a way not just for James' murder, but for everything that they have put blacks through over the years. I felt like a lot of their attempts to make ammends were only out of guilt, and not out of respect. A lot of the white people were trying to make excuses for the persecutors and saying that not all whites are like them and that the town of Jasper really is anice place to live with respect for everyone. The blacks responded to these statements by saying that the white citizens are just oblivious and unaware of the racism that is really going on in Jasper.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to point out when the white supremacy guy or some guy said that "in prison white guys are scared of black people". I thought that was ironic because outside of metal bars during the time white people where not scared to displayed their hatred to white people and it was more of black people keeping their distance from whites. I also wanted to comment on the fence in the cemetery because it was symbolic of two different communites in Jasper. I wanted to say that the wall being down does symbolize Jasper uniting but I think black residents still chose to be buried in the black because like on woman said it's "tradition" and people want to be buried with their family who were buried in the back. I also wanted to comment on the white supremacy guy when he said "blacks always says its race related when there is a problem with whites. White people do not see it. There is two different communities." Being a black person I have to agree sometimes I feel that often times black people what to pull the race cards even when it is not the case. I think people need to open thier eyes and ears and get the bigger picture of the problem than throwning down the race card. However, people need to be aware that their actions and/or words might be racist or send that vibe.
ReplyDelete-CANDiCE
When we were talking about the girl at the breakfast place, and whether or not she was racist, I thought about the results of Project Implicit. She claimed not to be racist, but there were subtle hints that implied that she was in fact biased; for example, the way she was able to identify that the kids at her school played with 'black' kids and that 'Mexican' kid. The separation was probably unconscious--I don't think she realized what she had said, and she probably does believe that she is impartial. On the other hand, the results of Project Implicit try to prove bias, even if you don't think you have any. It's all in your subconsciousness.
ReplyDeleteIn the discussion we had on friday, I would have liked to talk more about the racial divides in the town of Jasper. It seemed to me that the older black citizens of Jasper were quicker to make James' murder a race related crime than the younger black citizens of Jasper. Although both young and old were glad that James' murder wasn't being "swept under the rug". The younger generation of James' relatives seemed much more inclined to judge just the three prepotrators instead of the whole white race.
ReplyDeleteThe thing I really wanted to talk about was Shawn Berry’s sentence. Basically, he only got life while the others got the death penalty because he wasn’t racially motivated. But doesn’t it make it worse? Yeah, what the other two did was terrible, but some blame can be put on a society that created them and allowed them to be racist. To them Byrd wasn’t a person. However, if Berry wasn’t racist, then he brutally murdered someone he saw as a fellow human being, an equal to him and his friends. However, even if he wasn’t overtly racist, he probably was implicitly racist. I think people need to be more aware that they are racist even if they think they’re not.
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of our discussion I thought that the murder was not
ReplyDeletefully justified. I thought this because I felt the legal execution was
to easy compared to what the men did and the way they killed Bird. I
felt like death for them was to easy and they were being allowed to
escape what they had done with out pain. The mental torment of being
alive and always thinking about the wrong they committed was more
justifiable. Then I was asked weather I thought they should or
shouldn't get the death penalty. I didn’t know. I wanted them to die
because they didn’t deserve life, but i didn’t want them to die so
easily, without feeling the painful effects of what they did.
Throughout the rest of the discussion some one pointed out that they
will be living in jail for about ten years until they are executed.
With this knowledge if I were asked again what penalty I thought they
deserved I would say the death penalty. They will still have to live
for a while thinking in pain of what they did, with nothing to look
forward to but death. This way I believe is more justifiable.
I wanted to say the racism in general in today's world. Although it was really awesome that we focused a lot of Bryd/Jasper etc, there is still a lot of hate crime today and that it exists not only between black and white but among many races and such.
ReplyDeleteI mean, I have gathered some cases that are not just black and white. But cases that dealt with other races. And I even feel that talking about something from day to day is rather important to discuss. The basic point of this discussion is to understand hate crime and if we talked more about it on a day to day basis, it would be much more easier to relate to and understand.
I would have wanted to respond to how the white people in Jasper tried to make excuses for the three perpetrators. I think they were quick to jump to accusations about James Byrd's reputation and did not even comment on the upbringing or reputation of the three white men. Regardless of James Byrd's reputation, he does not deserve to be killed. I think that this case should make people more aware that racism is more prominent than it appears. The outcomes of this case though were good though because the people who committed a hate crime were given severe consequences for what they did.
ReplyDeleteI wish we had talked more about the people in Jasper that didn’t seem to be racist at all. I know the movie didn’t spend too much time on them, but there were a couple scenes that showed people who didn’t segregate and didn’t seem to be racist. I think that those people were worth pointing out, because by the end of the movie, not much progress had been made. There were still racist people teaching their children horrible things, but there were also still these people, and I hope they manage to influence the other members of their town.
ReplyDeleteIn class, we didn't talk very much about how a white crew filmed the white citizens and a black crew filmed the black citizens. I wanted to say that I thought it was interesting that, throughout the entire film, nobody in Jasper noticed that there were two different crews. I think that this demonstrates that, even in a town where most people claim to be accepting and not racist, people are used to surrounding themselves with those of their own race. Also, I thought that it was interesting to see who the crews ended up filming. I wish I had been able to ask the class what they thought of how the film followed around a white guy with a bunch of racist tattoos. I liked the movie, but I was confused about that choice.
ReplyDeleteI thought that if we had included Emmett Till in our discussion it would have more comprehensive and would have had more connections with other lynchings that's we've learned.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that I thought we should have talked about was how the black community themselves didn't seem to want an equality. It was as if they thought it was always going to be this way. They had fiercely fought for James Byrd's rights but it seemed like they were reluctant to be with the white community. It may be because they felt estranged with them like the white community felt about the black community, but it didn't seem like the black community made any effort while the white community at least tried to show concern and attention.
In the discussion in class, we talked briefly about the racist white man that the documentary seemed to focus on (to an extent). I thought his thoughts at the end of the movie, after all the trials were over, were very interesting and a little bit strange. The trials did not seem influential enough in this man's life for him to almost completely renounce his racist sentiments, and yet that is what he appears to admit to when talking to the white documentarians. Of course, he still clings to racism in his objection to interracial marriages. The reversal of beliefs is a little unbelievable. Maybe he feels that after the trials, his beliefs are no longer as welcomed or acceptable as before.
ReplyDeleteThe discussion in class went very well. i think all the important points were made and different points of view were met. The argument that could go both ways was, was the death penalty more harsh then life in prison?
ReplyDeleteThe one thing i wish i had been able to talk about was during the second group's discussion. A point was brought up about living life in prison vs. facing the death penalty. A few students felt strongly that the death penalty is worse than spending life in prison, which i think is completely untrue. I believe getting a death penalty for some of these people is a quick fix, allowing them to never face up to their crimes. Spending life in jail would be horrible, and rapidly deteriorates a person's mental health. When someone is confined to a tiny cell, they have nothing to do but dwell on the reason they have got there.
ReplyDeletei would have liked to discuss more about the perspectives of the african americans. most of the discussion was about our own personal opinions, or those of the whites and what we thought of those, but we never really got into the salon and other perspectives from the blacks point of view
ReplyDelete(Fantastic, another late reply.)
ReplyDeleteActually, it would have been interesting to me at least, to consider the social statuses of the murderers in Jasper. Were they low-class whites-- that group that was often thrown in with blacks in the past, but just barely ranks higher in the case of trials, lke the murderers of Emmett Till? (Seems like two of them must have spent all their money on tattoos...)
Also, that third guy that got life in jail: Was he saved only because he had no racist tattoos, and had black friends? Many people pretend they aren't racist to fit in better with society, and even pretend to get along with people they secretly hate. I think his true colors showed when he was driving the truck.
During both inner and outer discussions I felt as though people were more focused on talking about the actual case and how the perpatrators were going to be punished rather than the bigger issues surrounding the case like the huge problem with racism in Jasper. We kind of discussed how there were "some" white people living in Jasper that were racist but I believe that there were a lot more people that actually were. It seemed like the white community was putting on a front for the black community to seem like they cared and they were showing support, but in my opinion I think that there were probably a good hand full of people that geniuenly cared about what happened but other than those people it just looked like it was a show in front of the cameras to make it seem like there was no racial gap between whites and blacks in Jasper but if that was the case there wouldn't still be a divided cemitary. It was only when the cameras were rolling that it was all of a sudden decided that they wanted to take the fence away but If there was no actual racial issues in Jasper the fence should have been taken down a long time ago. Also with the article that we read before we saw the documentry, It just consisted about the good facts of Jasper and making it seem like such a wonderful place to live and how everything is perfect between everyone and there isn't any seperation between blacks and whites. The way they try to cover it all up through their interviews, articles, and documentries is ridiculous. I think there is a lot more racism that goes on in Jasper then those few people that they showed. Not only in Jasper, but all around the world. People tend to ignore and forget that their are still racial issues that happen today and even though they arn't as serious as this case, it still is compleatly wrong and shouldn't be still going on.
ReplyDelete-Tanya
I wish that during our discussion in class we'd had a chance to talk about what the little girl at the hotel/diner said: that all the kids in school, white or black, sat together and played together, and were all friends.
ReplyDeleteThe generational divide is an important issue. This year's presidential election, for example, clearly demonstrated the differing worldviews Gen Y-ers have from their parents or grandparents. A Time article I read, back in January, said something about how the children of these times are growing up in such a different world, multiracial and multilateral, taking for the norm what their parents could never even have imagined.
I doubt Jasper is exempted from these generational tides, and I wonder what else the documentary would have revealed had there been more interviews of younger people in the town, to contrast with all the opinions of the elderly folk, who had grown up with the segregation and instability of the early to mid-nineties.
(But at the same time, I also can't help but wonder how many generations it will take to eradicate such deep-rooted hatred, and all the bitterness that has built up over the years.)
I wish i had pointed out that the thing that struck me most when i came to america was that the discrepancy between blacks and whites in the lunch room is extreme. when i was in austria i didnt know that there are still those racial problems, or if u dont wanna say problems, racial identities and differences.
ReplyDeletei think it was very interesting, too, that in the high schol of jasper all the kids were separated while they got the message from the major who told them that byrd was murdered. That was very interesting and should have been discussed more. i think it just shows that jasper is not as perfect as some people picture it, and that there is still a lot of work to do to ensure a better living together, without racial tensions.
i am sorry for my late post, but i was sick the last few days, and want to excuse me for that.
benni