This post is for Tuesday, because of the snow day. . . sorry for any confusion.
What do you wish was said today in class about race relations at LHS? Was there anything missing from this conversation?
Look at your notes, think about our discussion, and comment below.
Saying that nothing was missing is NOT an option.
For those of you that are interested, there is an interesting article on Slate.com entitled "How will Obama's presidency change hip-hop?"
Look at your notes, think about our discussion, and comment below.
Saying that nothing was missing is NOT an option.
For those of you that are interested, there is an interesting article on Slate.com entitled "How will Obama's presidency change hip-hop?"
As I read the article by Beverly Tatum Daniels, I found the idea that racism is an environmental stressor to be very interesting. I was wondering what other people thought about this idea because we see this idea in a different light at LHS. Racism is definitely an environmental stressor at LHS but it is not a source of stress socially in the cafeteria. Instead, it is a source of stress in the academic courses we take. Not to be stereotypical, but Asians for the most part, take many honors and AP classes. People of other races feel like they have to compete with the Asians and take harder classes, or at least succeed in the classes they are taking. However, in the cafeteria, people are mostly segregated by race through their own choosing.
ReplyDeleteOne topic that came up frequently in our class discussion was the "bullying" of freshman. To be honest I've pretty much never seen any form of severe bullying going on in the cafeteria. Maybe I'm just not that observant but I kind of feel like that idea of bullying the lower classmen at lunch is a myth. Therefore, I personally don't think that the threat of being bullied has an effect on where people sit. I also wanted to add, and this might have been said before, that the various reasons for why students sit with each other roots back to middle school. In middle school, people were developing new friendships, starting new sports, and getting to know themselves a little better. I think that all these things carried through to high school and can be seen through why people sit with each other. For example, the soccer players from Diamond and the soccer players from Clarke will all get to know each other (or are already friends) due to mutual sport interests and then sit with each other at lunch. This may not be exactly true, but in some cases it can be.
ReplyDeleteThis was touched on during class, but I wish we had talked more about how people tend to not only sit with people of their own race/gender, but also by school activities or clubs. When I was going around interviewing people I was so aware of who sat with who. I saw the table for the "drama kids" and the "basketball players" and the "math team" etc...it reminded me so much of the scene in the movie Mean Girls when there's a whole diagram of the cafeteria with labels for every table, such as the 'Cool Asians' vs the 'Asian Nerds', the 'Art Geeks' and so on. Obviously the grouping of who sits with who at LHS isn't quite as dramatic, noticing all of this really made Lexington High School seem so cliché to me.
ReplyDeleteWell since me and sammy are together because we so obviously were in trouble with another teacher after school for classroom disruption, we thought it would be appropriate to comment together.
ReplyDeleteWe both thought that in the class discussion we failed to mention how personal lunch seating arrangements changed over the years. For instance, I (jackie) used to sit in the halls as a freshmen, graduated to the black corner sophomore year, cuz thats where my best friend sat, and now i sit at a new table with a very mixed group of people including sammy. Sammy argues that freshmen year she sat with boys but moved on to an all girls table primarily because shes a messy eater and thought it was best to drop food on her lap while surrounded by girls rather than boys.
I wanted to talk more about how seating habits change over time. I thought that it was very interesting how children often don’t notice race, it’s only in the first few years of middle school that this sort of cafeteria “segregation” occurs. One topic that came up in class was whether freshmen or seniors sit at more integrated tables. Someone said (and I agree) that they think seniors sit at more mixed race tables. Maybe they have become more conscious of the segregation and are trying to step across racial lines? Is it a conscious effort to try to stop the segregation that is so unconscious?
ReplyDeleteI noticed that a lot of emphasis was put on how people's interests often dictated who sat together at lunch. At least from the people I talked to, I didn't find that there were many tables with one common interest sitting together. I was wondering whether many other people noticed people sitting together predominately because they shared some interest.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I started thinking after class that (as Alex called it) cafeteria "segregation" wasn't so much seeking out people with similar backgrounds or viewpoints, or even interests, but being afraid to approach people who we perceive as too different from us. Of course no one I interviewed said anything about this, but I remember as a middle schooler who came from a different town (and so didn't know anyone from elementary school) I tended to seek out people who seemed like me, maybe because I felt they were more likely to accept me?
During class today we discussed a lot about whether or not there was racial segregation in the cafeteria. Ms. R touched on this, but I think it would be more interesting to analyze what effects this may have. For example, we talked about the black corner of the cafeteria. Will this corner always be the black corner, because lowerclassmen take upperclassmen spot etc.
ReplyDeleteAlso, we came to a consensus that people sit with their friends, who are not necessarily involved in the same classes or extra curriculars. In movies, we often see the jock table, the drama table etc in the cafeterias, but I think that this is not so much the case at LHS. People are more open about themselves here and willing to try new things and be themselves. For example, there are many sporty people involved in drama.
I do not think that people sit with others of their same race simply because they are the same race, but because they share similar values and interests.
We mentioned that even though our high school is not racist, people still have a conscience about race. I think this doesn't just apply to who people sit with at lunch, i think it happens in other parts of school. Like at the beginning of this class. Our discussions were not that in depth because (well I think) that people didn't feel comfortable with each other and didn't want to offend anyone, but now we pretty much say anything. Also I agree with Amy on how we tend to stereotype certain classes or levels of classes. I know someone who takes two AP classes and feels like she is the only white and the majority is Asian. I still think that even though there is a conscience in our school we don't segragate ourselves by race in the cafeteria.
ReplyDeleteI think we should have mentioned more about why people at LHS sit together based more on common interests and activities rather than based on race. The people in my class seemed to generally disagree with the excerpt we read from the book about people choosing to sit together by race. Although it may be true at other schools, our students were mostly separated by age and gender. Overall, i was not convinced by Beverly Tatum Daniels her evidence did not seem very valid. I agree with every else too that the seating habits did change over time. But I think that does relate to a change in interests not only a basis of race. I just think we should have talked more in class about why it was thought that people sat together by race, when all our evidence from the field study pointed to other reasons.
ReplyDeleteI know that we touched upon this a bit in class, but I think we should have talked about not only the racial segregation in the cafeteria, but also the behaviors between different races. I noticed that when Metco kids only sit together in the back corner, there is not a lot of interaction with the other kids in the cafeteria. The truth is the same vice versa. I don't usually see many white kids sitting with the Metco kids or even talking to them as they walk by. I know of many students who are afraid to go buy from the vending machines that are in the back corner. I can see people from different races that are friendly in classes completely ignore each other in the cafeteria and avoid any confrontation if possible.
ReplyDeleteI think that today was a good discussion, and a lot of good topics came up. I don't understand why people are so surprised when they see people sitting at a different table from where they usually sit. For example, let's say that a person usually sits with a club that they go to. If the same person sits somewhere else one day, at a different club, they might get non-verbal (or verbal- don't know if this has happened yet) wondering "Why are you sitting here" based on the "looks" that they get from others. Based on this, I think there are subconscious (probably not noticed out loud but noticed in their heads) cliques forming or formed. There may be "the basketball table" "the tennis table" "the METCO table" etc. I don't see anything wrong with sitting with different people for a change, maybe not just for a change, but to just give them a little company (which is what some people want, and what may be one of the main reason why they sit in the same place with the same people). Maybe the reason they sit with friends, or people who know them is because they are the only ones who they know or are their friends. I do sympathize with people who may not have too many friends. Also, I am interested as to why this answer doesn't come up when it comes to asking why people sit in the same spot. It can just be thirst for more company or friends/friendhips.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes down to it people sit with people who have similar interests and ideas as they do. These people are probably also your friends. I don’t see the problem with sitting with your friends. It may seem like people sit with people of a similar race as them selves but that is only what we can see from looking at them. People of the same race may have similar background cultures that define them, or certain types of experiences they share. These bring them together. From these cultures and experiences come interests, and work ethics. I don’t want to sterio type but there are a lot of asians who take AP classes and play in orchestra. This is probably a big influence from their culture, and family. Many come from hard working families who worked hard enough to come to the U.S., now they feel the drive to work hard at school.
ReplyDeletePeople make friendships with people who they share interests and ideas with. These interests and ideas are often influenced by background culture and family life. Race can be a indirect reason for friendships, and friends sit together at lunch.
I think one of the more important things we did not touch on in class is that people generally are grouped by age and gender more than by race. Almost all of the tables I interviewed were made up of kids from the same grade, and mostly the same gender. It is very often that the upperclassmen dominate the cafeteria, especially during 2nd lunch. When there were a few freshman and sophomores at tables, upperclassmen seemed to get priority to seats and it was just acknowledged that freshman and sophomores were supposed to squish so older kids weren't left without a spot. I saw many times that there were big booths of all girls and all boys, and I think it's important to acknowledge that lunch is a time to hangout and talk with friends, and often that is easiest within your own gender when talking about gossip, and grade for academics.
ReplyDeleteLike a lot of people have already said, one main component missing from our classroom discussion today was how most people tend to sit with others based upon their extracurriculars and outside interests, and race does not really seem to dictate too much in the LHS commons. All of the tables that I spoke to said that they all sat together because they had a mutual interest; one group was the improv kids, another was girls who played a lot of sports, and another was rooted from the interest in a particular band. I think that people in Lexington particularly feel more comfortable sitting with people that share their interests, because it gives them something to talk about at lunch. Race isn't something that's really blatantly discussed, and so I feel like interests and likes/dislikes have a bigger impact on who we choose to associate ourselves with.
ReplyDeleteI think the class today could have gone into more depth about other races at lunch. It seemed we only talked about African Americans, and Asians. It might be because those are the biggest minority groups. But I think it would be interesting to see what people noticed about some of the other races at LHS. From what I've seen in the cafeteria, there was no obvious Indian area in the commons. This might just be because there aren't as many of the other minority groups. But I'm not quite sure what the difference is between those other minority groups and those that do tend to group together at lunch.
ReplyDeleteOur class focused on interest and neighborhood as a factor of grouping/separation, as opposed to race. I believe we should have discussed why this is. I think it would've been interesting, because just being in the same place all the time doesn't automatically make people friends. People aren't necessarily best friends with the people in their homerooms just because they've spent four years together in homeroom; the same as kids who live near each other/bus together aren't necessarily going to be friends based on that factor alone. There was most likely more to it than just that and I think we could've dug a little deeper and discussed what those more hidden reasons for grouping might be; whether they are race related or not.
ReplyDeleteA topic that we didn't talk a lot about in class was reasons other then race and grade for why people sit together at lunch. I think that it is true for a lot of people that they sit with a group of people all with similar interests or all involved in a similar activity (a club or a sport), but I think that for an equal amount of people this really doesn't have much of an influence on where they sit. I think that where people sit at lunch all comes down to who people are friends with and who they are comfortable sitting with. A lot of times this does mean a group of one gender, or one grade, or race, or people from the same activity, but it can also be a more random group of people, all with different interests, which is more like the group I sit with at lunch.
ReplyDeleteI think an interesting fact that we didnt really talk about is that the racial segragation (that sounds so mean, and harsh, but i dont know what to say else) in the lunch commons 1 is mostly made of black/white segregation. Most of the tables i talked to were different races too, asian, indians, pakistani (that is not really a race, but whatever, u get the point) and whites sat together, but i didnt see that many blacks sit with whites together even though there should not be a difference. I didnt really know how to say that in class, thats why i just left it, but besides this white/black thing the other races dont really care about each other.
ReplyDeleteI know, BTD explains it somehow, but in my opinion it doesnt really make sense why many black kids sit in this black corner and hardly whites go over there and i dont really get why this is the case, although i read BTD...
The connection wasn't really made linking grade levels to racial grouping, or the lack thereof. Both grade and race were discussed independently, but I'm sure that some interesting conclusions would arise if the two topics were put together. Do you think that you'd observe more racial grouping while watching a 1st lunch (predominately freshmen and sophomores) or while watching a 3rd lunch (mostly juniors and seniors)? Do you think that what you would see through actual observation would necessarily match up with what you would expect to see? Again, I bet this would lead to some interesting conclusions about the overall mentality of the classes.
ReplyDeleteIn class we touched on the fact that most black people sit in the back of the cafe, (someone even has heard the term "sitting in Africa"), and one of the reasons as to why students of other races; white, asian, etc. don't choose to sit there very often is out of fear. Along with students being afraid to sit in that corner, other students predominately freshman don't even enter the cafe to sit in the cafe, but sit in the hall. I think it would have been interesting to explore whether the fear of sitting with people or in areas of different race, or even age (for the freshman), is actually because students fear people of different backgrounds or because they simply feel more comfortable with people who are the same as them?
ReplyDeleteWOWWW I've never heard the sitting in Africa term. That is a new one. There's no reason for people to be afraid to be back there. We just all sit there because we come off the bus and kind of just group together. We step out our own comfort zone(home)and step into the suburbs I think we hold onto that piece of home by being together. It makes it comforting to know we always have a place to chill and talk. Now I find myself going to talk to friends or sitting somewhere else but always venturing by the corner at some point just to talk and keep it moving. To touch on AlexFJ's question I think that when we first come to the high school we just cling to the friends we had in middle school because that's all we know. And as we meet new people in the high school as we get older we start to make new friends and branch out.
ReplyDeleteThese blog comments seem to reinforce what we said in class, that LHS students are exceptionally sensitive to race -- and maybe it's not always a good thing, if it leads us to be wary and self-segregate.
ReplyDeleteBut anyway. In class today, we never even touched upon the subject of religion, another highly sensitive area, possibly even more so than race, just because everyone wants to be so "open-minded" and therefore, "Oh, it doesn't matter what religion you are! We're all the same!" Did anyone even dare ask, in the commons field study, what religions people are certain tables identified with? There probably would have been a resounding "Atheist/Agnostic" reaction, certainly, but I know for a fact that certain church groups, at least, tend to flock together in school.
How race plays into religious groupings is a whole 'nother can of worms. It's been said that America is the most segregated on Sunday mornings. Tough fact to swallow, maybe, but it's true.
I wish we could've talked more about the similarities and different between our independent studies of the commons and the article we had to read. While reading, I agreed with many of the writer's points. I don't think LHS is as segregated as some schools may be but the article gives an almost accurate description of what the LHS cafeteria is like.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting how the class reacted to 'freshman bullying.' From what I saw, I don't think we've really experienced the typical freshman bullying portrayed in the media. The only types of freshman bullying that I've seen in LHS is only playful and joking, unlike the physical, shove-in-the-locker types in the movies.
ReplyDeleteI had one response to the Metco students sitting apart in Commons I during lunch. I don't think that it's because that they are black is the reason for them sitting apart in a group. These students are bussed in from Boston, with or without their willingness to do so. It's only reasonable that they would feel isolated from the students that live in this suburban town. If given the choice, I believe that the majority of the Metco students would choose to go to a school near their neighborhood instead of being bussed in to Boston.
I think we covered pretty much everything in class, but one thing we didn't really talk about was grade or age separation. When I went into the Commons, it was mostly freshman sitting together, sophomores together, juniors together, etc. I think especially freshman year friendships carry on from middle school and so kids sit with their friends because that is in their comfort zone. As we get older and into the later lunches, I noticed a lot of juniors and seniors sat together; and I think that is because they have gotten to know each other by being comfortable to step out of that comfort zone, now that they have been at LHS for a while.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't in class today, but if I had been there I would've wanted to talk about how people usually gravitate towards sitting with the people they are used to. At least for me, some of the kids I sit with at lunch have been sitting together since middleschool or freshmen year. I just sort of developed a habit of finding them at lunch. It was interesting to read Jackie and Sammy's post because it sounds like they have sat with a lot of different people over the years. There's been a lot less change for me and for the other two tables I talked to. It would have been interesting to hear what other people's experience was.
ReplyDeleteIn the disscussion i wish we had talked about how people tend to sit with certain people due to their interests. Throughout freshman to junior year the group of kids i sat with were all somehow involved in skateboarding(for the most part). So somedays there would be black kids and sometimes Asian kids, it was different everyday. The group was predominantly white, but that is because skateboarding is a predominantly "white" activity. Race and gender i don't really think is a strong factor in where people sit, it is more of their involvement in certain things.
ReplyDeleteDuring class I wish we had talked about how people change over time, seating-wise. Children don't seem to notice race, sitting with whoever they decide they like and deem as friends; as they grow older, though, they start to notice race more and more. Maybe it's because they are aware of how different it would look to others if, say, they were the only white person sitting among blacks. Even though they might be friends with everyone at that table, they would still probably feel less self-conscious when around others who look the same as them; aka, they wouldn't stand out as much.
ReplyDeleteI wish the discussion today was more active and lively. I wish people spoke out more on their opinions, and described how the commons situation might be compared to other schools or places. It didn't seem like everyone was too intrigued, and that a lot of people had the same findings. Also, it would have been interesting to talk about the reading we had to do in relation to everything from our findings, but we never got around to that.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the class discussion, we focused mainly on the relations between blacks and whites in the cafeteria. I think it would have been interesting to also look at the other races in our school (also in the cafeteria). There are many interesting divisions that happen between the various ethnicities, when it comes to sitting with someone for lunch.
ReplyDeleteFor example, Commons 2 is usually known as the "Asian" commons, and I think we should have investigated that, to some extent.
I do not think our class really talked about how people sat together based on activities they do for fun such as sports or clubs. We mainly discussed how people sit together based on race, gender, and grade. I think that is what happens a lot but there are also many people who sit together because they know one another from things that are not necessarily race related.
ReplyDeleteI wish that we had been able to actually divert away from what we see in our school, and talk about schools as a whole. we tried, but people were unwilling to look at schools in general, and focused only on our school. if we had been able to talk about schols in general, we could have talked about how groups tend to form, instead of just what we see here, friends have known each other for a while etc.
ReplyDeleteEven though I wasn't here during the day of this discussion, I think that people don't tend to sit with each other because of race or gender or age. Usually people decide who their going to sit with by the people they have been friends with for a while, friends of their friends, family members, or people they have things in common with. As much as there are mixed lunch tables with different races ages and genders in them there are also a lot of tables that are segragated. For example, there are kids who like to sit in the second cafateria because they have friends with similar interests sitting in that cafeteria and then there are kids who sit in the first caferteria because they have friends with differernt interests sitting in that one. Also when you look at both cafeterias, there usually are tables with mixed race, ages, and genders but there are some who just have one race one age and one gender. It wouldn't make sense to say that all tables are mixed because in most cases all tables arn't.
ReplyDelete